dra wrote:thirtythr33 wrote:Your examples are extremely misleading.

dra wrote:Fighter A swing for 21 and gets quite a good roll with 17 succeses.

This has a probability of 0.36%

dra wrote:Fighter A swing fo 10 and gets quite a good roll with 7 successes.

This has a probability of 17.19%

You need to keep the probabilities constant across examples, not the ratio of successes.

Funny. Exactly same exchange happened on our last bob test session. With exception of pools, they were equal at 25 CP and MoS of killing blow was 14 succeses. Regardless of it's probability.

1. You have to understand that your examples are misleading because they are not complete in many aspects.

I assume you mean that you had two combatants, each 25CP, trading blows.

You say that

Fighter A Swings 21 D = 17 S; Fighter B defends (?) 15 D = 7 S. MoS10 for A.

1st Issue: There is no maneuver called "Defend". He Parries with his weapon? Blocks with a shield? If yes what kind of shield? Dodges? Disengages? Grabs?

2nd Issue: In this instance you have 21v17, not say 21v19. That's a 4 dice mismatch instead of 2. Assuming that 2 dice = 1 success the average expected MoS for 21 is 2.

This estimation does not take into account exploding dice.Made a little thing to account for explosions as well.

Code: Select all

`\ Band of Bastards Dice Roller`

\ Basic Pool D10

N:=1; \ Change N to alter the number of dice

count 5< N#(accumulate x:=d10 while x=10)

You can go to Troll dice roller, roll to your heart's content, and calculate probabilities with this code.

http://topps.diku.dk/torbenm/troll.mspUsing this code we get that 21 D average 11.66 S.

Likewise 17 D average 9.44 S.

Both are at TN6 ofc.

Expected average MoS for higher pool = 2.22

Check it out.

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2. Now I want to put this behind and ask something else. 25CP vs 25CP. Wow.

How did they get 25CP? I'm really curious.

Priority 5 Attributes gives 20pts. To get max CP out of Attributes he'd have to assign 10 points to Agility and Cunning. Which means Ag6 Cu5 OR Ag5 Cu6. Either way this totals 11CP. And he has 10pts left to distirbute to 6 Attributes, meaning a 2.66 average Attribute rating.

Priority 5 Proficiency gives 20pts with a cap of 11. Which means that base CP+Prof = 22CP.

Having spent 10 Priority points he has 5 left.

He spends 3 to Edges, trades two minor Edges to one major Edge and gets Large for the +2CP bonus. For a total of 24CP at character creation.

Skills get Priority 1 (5@2) and finally Class gets Priority 1 as well (serf or slave).

So, you can't have a 25CP character right from the start. 24CP is the absolute maximum, still it is an awkward built, at least for my tastes. Add a single SA of 5 and you get a staggering 29CP for a specific situation (SA firing).

I assume that you played some sessions and they gained the required SA to advance to 25CP. If this is the case I'd be curious to know their starting build, advancement during play, and number of sessions played. Oh, but wait. I shouldn't assume anything. You said "latest test session", didn't you? So how do these guys have 25CP?!?!?!

To continue with this.

Are they both player characters? If not, why does an NPC has CP matching the PC exactly? Don't forget, NPCs don't get any SAs. That's only for PCs.

This reminds me of DnD and similar games, where the opposition gets bigger with PC advancement.

The fighter gets a sword +3? Start throwing critters that require +4. The mage gets Finger of Death? Start throwing strong Undead. Yada yada yada.

The point of point-buy story based games is to defeat this kind of inflation. BoB's

*"play what you want from the start"* concept even more so.

But as they say, to each his own.

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3. About strategy and maneuvers being insignificant with big pools.

When these two 25CPers faced off the defender made a huge error. Why? Because he was attacked with 21 dice and he responded with a 17 dice defense. Let's assume it was a Parry. The obvious choice would be to respond with an equally big (if not bigger) Parry. The not so obvious choice would be to respond with a Preemptive Attack. He'd have dice enough to burn so he'd win that Speed Contest fairly easily, then he'd use a Precision Thrust to a vulnerable wheel with some good hit locations to choose from. Or a fairly small Grab and on Tempo 2 throw it all in a Gouge/Snap/Strangle. If that was his strategy you'd have an entirely different outcome.

So blame the player who doesn't know how to use efficiently his big CP pool. Not dice, probability, or lack of caps.

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4. About rules being redundant.

The only rule I can think of being "redudant" is Swing vs Draw Cut when you claim Emphasis for Sabre. They cost the same but Draw Cut adds +2DR vs exposed areas. Too niche to be called redundant if you ask me.

A freak occurrence when one side over-invests and rolls really high, the other side misjudging the situation, under-invests and responds with poor strategy doesn't make anything redundant.

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And a final note.

Thirtythr33's probabilities are correct for non-exploding pools.

As you can see below it's 0.36% to score 17 successes with 21 non-exploding d10s.

On the other hand it's 4.542% to score 17 successes with 21 exploding d10s.

Explosions make a mess out of probabilities, that's why bigger pools can wield more varied results.

Should I change digits precision from 3 to 12 we get this nightmare.

21d10 non-exploding cap at 21 successes with a 0.000047683716 % chance.

21d10 exploding get 21 successes with a 0.098968359176 % chance; they "cap" at 39 successes with a 0.000000000001 % chance. Theoretically you could roll infinite successes with an exploding pool.

Thankfully Scoundrels kills exploding dice. And good riddance if you ask me.