Is this where we start talking about a BoBd6?
Haha, that's a good one!
I mean, other than inventing the tempting mechanic -- which is absolutely fantastic, mind you -- Fate basically has just one rule ("make an opposed roll")* Also, fudge dice are awful. Seriously, i hate them.
*("pick a number, any number" anyone?)
EinBein wrote:If the trend develops too much into the direction of simplification, we'll end up with a ruleset like Savage Worlds.
Korbel wrote:This is why GM has the final word.
Honestly, that is a sentence i never want to see in a design decision.
The "It's up to the GM" rule aka Golden Rule is a terrible rule, and one that i'd really like the hobby to abolish wherever possible.
The Dark Eye 4th edition, one of the most terrible rule systems i know, was designed with a mindset that has this rule ingrained. The results speak for themselves (giving us numbers that don't matter and rules that are "optional", which just means "not recommended" - which makes no sense).
Tabletop Design Rule 0: "write rules as if everyone is going to use all of them."
-- END RANT --
Korbel wrote:As we know, this is largely because extra dice have such a big impact on smaller Pools (the original issue). And what do I mean by smaller Pools? Well, up to 8 dice. With Pools bigger than 9 (which is a breaking point), a double TN Shift gives you a better chance to succed, than a single Shift + 2 extra dice.
Actually, I think that SA should have a bigger impact on smaller pools, particularly now that we have to burn them for extra d.
Something else that we haven't exhaustively talked about:
The way i see it, the system was designed so that regularly getting ~3d from SA is all but necessary to succeed in a Bastard's Life. With these new changes, obviously SA don't "have your back" as much as before.
It still makes sense to burn 2 SA points every Scene, obviously, even if burn dice are spent on a single roll (which i'd have assumed) as opposed to "last until end of scene".
In other words, there are two problems:
1) the safety net is now way less safe than before.
2) no intrinsic Incentive to keep your SA high.
(Although there is still the extrinsic incentive of "too good to use". You want to keep your SA high cause you don't know when you will really really need them. Obviously, they aren't meant to be overly scarce in the first place, but, you know...)
I've got a few ideas:
About 2), simply give a bonus effect when your SA is 5 (or 4). Like, have dice also explode when they land on a 9 if the firing SA is at 4 or 5. This wouldn't make sense with classic add-number dice explosion, but in BoB it's concievable.
All assuming that SA firing doesn't stack, and that burn dice from different SA don't stack either (in other words, burn dice need to come from one SA).
For 1), well, mostly 1:2 conversion (which is kinda meh). I'd been thinking about "Attribute burning" (only 1 point at a time but you get 4+[value before burn]d! or something) but that has its own problems.
Maybe have an additional Attribute that does that? (like for example Edge from Shadowrun) ... nah, that would be stupid.
Guess we'll just have to live the dangerous life from now on, hahaha
Another question: are we on the same page that with the new model, instead of "burning" SA for stat increases, burned SA move to a "experience points" bank? Or did i misunderstand this.
Sidenote - might be a cool add-on/lever: different types of SA with different "emphases" as back in TROS. A "Drive" could enhance the Grin and bear it effect, for instance. "Luck" could have the aforementioned Explosion TN 9 (insead of giving it to any SA).
And, because i just spotted it:
thirtythr33 wrote:Huh? With the combined dice, someone arguing to get Agility + Stealth vs Cunning + Stealth is probably only wheedling 2 or so dice difference. With the 1-10 attribute and skill system, wheedling between a Social Attribute test or a Manipulation Skill test might be 5+ dice difference. If you make the ruling that "if it is close to a Skill, then it's the Skill and never the Attribute" then Speed, Acumen, Willpower and Social are basically dump stats.
I agree that these Attributes need more applications, overall.Suggestions:
1) make them spendable for something?
2) tie SA burning effects to them?
this is stupid.